Episode 7

Balancing Data and Intuition to Lead Large Design Teams

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In this episode, we chat with Adam Morgan, Senior Director of Brand at Splunk. He chats about:

  • How to harness data to develop groundbreaking ideas and develop effective creatives.
  • How to weave compelling narratives that resonate with your audience and drive engagement.
  • How data-driven decision-making can create a successful branding journey for organizations.

Adam Morgan
Senior Director of Brand
Arjita K
Director, Growth and Business
Development, Artwork Flow


Arjita: Hi, Adam. Welcome to the Artwork Flow podcast. Thank you so much for taking out the time and entertaining our request to come on this chat. And Adam here for our audience, he's a true leader in the field of creative direction and brand management. He's currently the Senior Director of Brand at Splunk. He has previously lent his expertise to major brands like Adobe and he's also written a book called Sorry Spock Emotions Drive Businesses. I am very happy to have you here Adam, why don't you like to introduce yourself to our audience a little bit more.

Adam: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me here. Yes. I have been in this creative field for, man, starting at 1995 when I started my first job working at a newspaper designing ads, but it's getting close to almost three decades now and I've done everything from big agencies, small agency, in-house startup, you name it. So I've had a really exciting journey.

Arjita: Wow, and you know, we can see it on your LinkedIn profile. So, you know, from copywriting to going up your way, you know, leading major brands and like working at a company like Adobe, which literally fuels the creatives all across the world. So how was that journey like? Like, could you just like take us through, you know, how did you go from starting your career in copywriting and all the way up to where you're now leading, you know, a large B2B business on the creative front?

Adam: Yeah, I would say it was just, you know, one step after another in my career. I, I actually started out, I was going to be a chemical engineer. That's where I went to school. Um, but I really fell in love with the idea of just big ideas and concepts and campaigns and, and advertising and all of that glitz in the, in the mid nineties, you know, reading books like the one show or communication arts and just seeing all the, all the awesome work that so many people did.You know before me so that's really what got me going But how did I move from one step to the next the next you know honestly? I say this a lot on my podcast, but as I look back It really is the thing that I did. I read a lot. I studied a lot. I became a student of the craft where I would just Memorize you know advertising annuals, and I would read every book I could get on creativity and you know there were some like. 

Hey Whipple, Squeeze This that made a huge impact on my career early on from Luke Sullivan. And he was on my podcast recently. It was so cool to have like an author that you looked up to for so many years. But, um, so it's been a lot of just reading books and learning and growing and, um, excuse me, just a second. Uh, even it's been a lot of reading books and growing and even lately reading a lot of books on leadership. that aren't just creativity. I think that's made a huge impact.

Arjita: That's great. And, you know, in terms of upscaling, reading is the best medium, but to really find, you know, the kind of content or resources that will enhance your career and not just give you generic, you know, generic frameworks, that is also very important. So in that sense, you know, you've also written a book, you've authored a book and it largely revolves around how, you know, data and science can impact creatives. You've talked about a lot of this on your podcast as well. Your career has been driven by this core philosophy. So would you tell us a little bit more about how you implemented this at large organizations like Adobe, like Splunk? If you have any interesting stories to share with us on how one can marry data and science with creatives that really drive business impact.

Adam: I'll even back up, like tying that back to my career. So I most of like through high school and college, like I said, it was all science courses. I was into neuro or sorry, physics and some chemistry and some other things. And I really wanted to be a chemical engineer. And so everything was all scientifically based. And then I got, you know, it's like I wanted to invent something like Kevlar or whatever, you know, but then I hated the labs.And when I found advertising, there was just inside of me, just like this connection back to, how do I tie this all back to logic or science or whatever it may be? And I found that throughout my career, the way that I became a better creative, which is totally not intuitive, is to, like I said, study and read and analyze and dissect all the parts and pieces. So like, let's say writing headlines, like for years and years, I just analyzed thousands and thousands of ads.And kind of came up, I have now like a, whatever, 23 formulas that I've seen used throughout, you know, over the years in headline writing, and I break it down into its components and how it worked. And then I could recreate that and write headlines in those different formulas and things, and then try and break those formulas. So for me, data and science has always been a part of creativity. And I think there are a lot of creatives out there that just do it intuitively. They don't know that's what they're doing, but they're, you know, if you read books like jumpstart your brain by Doug Hall and he really breaks apart like the creative process and how you're making new connections. And it's really, there's a lot of science behind it. So, um, moving forward in my career where, you know, I, I just kind of looked at things that way and kind of pulled the curtain back. Uh, I grew and grew and grew until I was the executive creative director at an agency and I had clients that were, you know, asking me to just, you know, ignore creativity. And they were just like, Oh, whatever creativity, like there's this one client that just didn't believe in creativity. And it bothered me so badly, because I'm like, if you truly understand what creativity is, like, it's not the opposite of logic, right? It's not. And so I set out on this quest to try and prove him wrong, and using only science to prove the value of creativity. And that's where the book came from, or really just like digging in but. When you stop and think about even creating new ideas, new campaigns today, there's something that stuck to me where the creative process is the scientific method. It really is, if you stop and think about it. Like in the scientific method, it's like you go out there and you're like, all right, I got a hypothesis and I wanna prove it out and I just keep doing, you know, tests or things to try and see if it keeps happening. And with the creative process, it's really like.

Adam: All right, I'm going to make new combinations of these ideas or new headlines, and then throw them out there and see how people react. Whether that's people at your company, when you're presenting to them, or you just throw out a whole bunch of new ideas on social media and see what sticks. And then when something works and connects and you're making that good emotional connection, it's like go all in on that, right? And you're like, okay, that's the truth. That's something that works. Let's just keep doing that. So there are just so many great examples of, at least in my career, of how I've just used that process to find good creative. So it sounds the opposite, like a logical approach to creativity. I just, I'm just like, again, looking at it through a different angle, which is creativity, look at things from the data side. And then when you see it that way, you no longer get hung up on data. Like a lot of creatives, at least 10 years ago, maybe we were like, oh, this data-driven crap is just ruining all of our good creative.And you just have to realize what we're really measuring and what people are caring about, what we're trying to get at. And it's really easy to marry those two and understand that just use the data and to inform your ideas and help you still make that creative leap of a new connection or a new, a new idea. And then it's not against it, right? It's, it's totally with it. So anyhow, that's been my experience and it works for me to keep marrying the two.

Arjita : Yeah, I love that part, you know, where you say that you use data to inform your ideas. One example that comes to my mind is, you know, in our growth team, I run the marketing team, obviously, so we are constantly looking at acquisition, you know, what are users doing on our website. And then when you look at this hot jar data, you actually see how people are interacting with your creatives and you can accordingly change your creative to get a better conversion. So a classic example, how business impact can be driven by, data-driven creative, like data-driven, when you have created thoughts, but you also have data to marry that with, and then that becomes a very powerful combination.

Adam: It does. And I would have cautioned some people to watch out on real data versus fake data. Because I think a lot of creatives are hesitant because they've sent their creative ideas into a focus group, let's say, and it gets destroyed. And I really feel like that's fake data. Like a focus group is a terrible example of like, it's not real life. If you pay these people and they feel this pressure to, you know, you gave them 50 bucks, so they're going to go try and.

Adam: Find all the holes and be terrible, right? Versus if you just throw something on social media and see who reacts, like the ones that people love are gonna get the good data and that's real, real reaction, not kind of fake. Like when I went through my book of the neuroscience of the two different systems of fast and slow, like when we go to a focus group or a survey, sometimes we're just serving the wrong system. We're just doing the fast or the slow system. So anyhow.


Adam: Find the right data, there's so much data out there, but find the data that helps you and helps you make better experiences, better creative, better customer experiences, and that's the stuff that you just should stick to.

Arjita: Yeah. And you know, the next question that it immediately brings to my mind is that now we have all these tools, right? A lot of acquisition is happening through online channels, a lot of marketing activities happening on Instagram, on socials, and we have all these different analytics tools, right? So when you started your career before 2010, when social media was a thing, right? How did you like how in that time, say, you know, a decade, a decade and a half ago, how was the creative impact? Actually measured and what is the kind of data that you were looking at that point in time, which was not fake data.

Adam: No, well, of course, mid 90s, we didn't have you're right, we didn't have all that stuff. I remember 94. I was like, Oh, great. Look at this HTML stuff. Look, this is exciting. Let's learn that. So we didn't. It wasn't sophisticated in the beginning of my career for sure. But what you did is you just had a good honest reaction from customers, right? Like if we put on a radio spot, and you put it out in the market and it helped.

Arjita: Thank you.

Adam: Great, you know, you just kind of had to look at the bottom line and see, you know, use that data as a benchmark. And I know that that's why I mentioned the focus groups and other things, because we would try all the Nielsen ratings and all the other things you like to try and pull some data back then. And it was rough. You didn't know a lot, that's for sure. But what you did, you know, it's so funny, what you did figure out was a good marketing gut, right, like a good intuition of knowing what's good and what's bad. And I think we went through this phase in the early 2000s, where we shamed that out of some people like, oh, you didn't use real, you know, click data, and you're just following your marketing gut. Therefore, it's all fake news. And you just need to, you know, wake up and smell the coffee. But the reality is, after reading my book and talking to so many neuroscientists, and really doing a lot of study on the creative process, the people who have trained and trained and trained their brains to really understand good connections, good moments, good customer experiences, that's invaluable. And just because maybe, you know. Whatever, certain data on the website may be different or whatever, it doesn't invalidate all of that good, you know, internal human data. And I think understanding that human data and really training yourself to empathize and care and understand your customer and all those good things, that's so valuable, because like now let's switch roles and let's move into the future of like, okay, the future is this whole customer experience. And the way you differentiate your brand is by having great, amazing experiences that people can feel and connect.

And I feel like the pendulum is, it was like, it swung so hard, you know, in the early two thousands of like, I remember this one time this guy got on Facebook and just said, whatever, we know, we know what real data is and we don't have to make it up with all your fake creative blah, blah. And so he dropped a link to his data analytics company. And I was just laughing because I'm like, I worked at Adobe with, you know, Adobe analytics, which was like a thousand times bigger. And I get it. Like we measure a lot of stuff, but it doesn't mean it.

Adam: Answer everything for you. You still have to make those connections. You still have to find the insights and figure out where to use it for, you know, the right action. So there's, there's. I guess where I'm getting to is like, it's, don't ignore any of the good sources of data for things that we've learned from the nineties, although up into the future, like we're still going to be pushing for good creative. And all these tools are going to be coming, whether it's AI or whether it's, you know, new ways to measure, whatever it is. Those are all great. They don't scare me. It's like, there may be some specific, you know, like an illustrator I can get that they're going to be a little worried, but they can still make a unique style. They can still make a way of doing something so special that it's their style that now all the algorithms are going to be trained on their style, right? Like there's still ways that you can work and it's not going to harm user creative because your job as a creative is to take all that data, all those tools and make new combinations and make it together and really, you know, find new ways of making great, amazing customer experiences.

Adam: And that's the future of making those great experiences. So we're totally fine. Yeah.

Arjita: Absolutely. No, I also have this firm belief that we are heading towards a next level league of creativity because everything else that is not creative is probably going to get automated. Whatever exists, all of your AI models will only be able to train on whatever is existing. So the power of designers and creatives will become.

like more and more important because everything else that can be done will be done by at some point but then real creativity which is like originality, marrying the thoughts, connecting the dots that is something that will you know really be powerful going forward as you rightly said so as well. Any particular examples that you would probably like to share with us in terms of you know your Stint as Adobe since you know that's a company that a lot of people can relate to like what did it entail to manage a huge budget? You mentioned 10 million in your LinkedIn, but what did it actually entail to manage that large of a budget and a large creative team? And what were your top three priorities? And still, I mean, you could also derive from your experience at Splunk, as a creative director, as a brand storyteller, what are the three, say, top priorities that you could your job entails.

Adam: All right. So let me break it apart. First, the whole budget thing, and then we'll talk about priorities. Um, I mean, honestly, even my current job, it's, you know, we spend millions and millions, you know, every quarter and it's, it's a lot of money for sure. But the reality is when you break it all down, it's just because we have a large team and a whole lot of content that we have to create, um, you know, hundreds. And I remember at Adobe and now it's blown. It's like thousands of emails and banner ads tons of eBooks and web pages and videos, and there's just so much content and it's a large team building it all. So that's where the money goes pretty fast. And it doesn't, you know, it's so funny. When I started out in like a small little agency that had super, super small budgets and you had to get really scrappy versus now, you know, big budgets, but it's still the same story. Like it doesn't feel like you just have this endless bucket of crazy money. It's because there's so much more content that has to be built. That it's still just like, you're still scrappy of like, ah, crap, okay, I've got to build so many different things, how are we going to get there? So I think it's just a matter of scale. But as far as like priorities and working with large teams.

You know, how would I say it? Like my priorities change based on the business, based on the time. Like it's always going to be changing. But if I had to break it down into like, what are the different types of things I do most of the time that I'm constantly working on, number one is going to be my team. So I have a lot of one-on-ones with my leadership. I'm having a lot of, you know, different meetings with the team, whether that's looking at work or whatever it may be. So there's a lot of just management skills. Once you get to a creative leader. That are really, really important in understanding how to speak to the team and inspire the team and get them going. There's a lot of meetings that I've had, like one in particular is a meeting. I call creative workshop that I've had. Yikes. The last three or four places I've worked, um, that are just like every Friday morning for one hour, the whole creative team gets together and sometimes other people in the, in the company to just get inspired where we'll talk about a Ted talk, we'll show, someone will read a book and give a book report, someone will talk about quilting and their deep love of it or plants or whatever it is, it doesn't matter, it's just something cool to inspire us. So that's one of the goals, it's just like the team and creativity and inspiring, you wanna make sure everyone feels that. And then the second would be the work. And with the work, there's just a lot in my day-to-day where it's like reviewing stuff, writing stuff, designing stuff, building stuff, whatever that may be. I feel like it's just a lot of guiding the work. So that's like table stakes. You have to do great work. That's what your job is as a creative. And the third for me is really what I would say, well, it's maybe there's four chunks because there's also all the admin stuff I'm still like reorganizing teams and getting budgets and trying to get things approved and like that there's that part and then the final one, the thing that I love the most, which is where. A lot of my.

Adam: Kind of day-to-day creative output comes in is the vision of where the brand should go. And I absolutely love that. Like we're currently, we're not going through a rebrand, but we're just, you know, spicing things up and kind of refreshing some things at Splunk. And just the thought of thinking through the storytelling for a brand, and I did this at Adobe too, like where are we going? What are we doing? What do we stand for? What are we, what are the principles that we believe in? In terms of branding and design and creativity and all those good things. And how, you know, how do we get there? And what are, what are the ways that the brand personality reflects those things? And how do you tie those brand attributes into, you know, actual creative work? And so that whole puzzle and storytelling is just so awesome and so much fun. That's what I love the most. So I spent a good chunk of my time doing that and guiding that because I mean, that's the job of a creative leader is still like, what's the vision, where can you go, what's possible, and then.

Arjita: Yeah.

Adam: Direct the whole big ship to get there. Yeah, I would like to dig a little bit deep on that because, you know, I personally relate to that a lot. So, so when you say, you know, vision for the brand, right, and especially in the B2B space, right. So when it's a B2C company, it's, I feel it's a little bit easier to do because, you know, you have a lot of levers and you are connecting to a consumer at a human and an emotion level and it's the consumer at the end of the day. But when you're working in a B2B setup, right? What does it actually entail to create a vision for the brand? And how have you seen this activity drive strategic outcomes or commercial outcomes for the companies that you work for?

Adam: Absolutely. You are 100% right. I think it's harder. I think B2B is tricky because I've worked on consumer brands and you just have to find the heart of that thing that it stands for whether that's like hiking boots or it's a, you know, whatever. And then you just get it that spirit. But the principles aren't different with B2B. The problem that makes it harder for B2B is that it's so much more complex that if you look at the full journey. You have like, you have the whole marketing and engineering teams wanting you to do emails and, and eBooks that are so technically complex because they're trying to explain features that are very, very detailed for a tech product. Right. And so you can't really just go out and do like a big brand campaign. That is usually all about trying to find that specific one human truth and just put some emotion around that human truth. Right. Now all of a sudden it's like, Oh, I've got this whole journey, there's like tons and tons of layers and tons of detail. But I think for me, what it's entailed then is just like, it's just a little bit trickier of a nut to solve. So I just have to look at it in the big aspect and say, okay, what is like at the very highest level, what is that little teeny one sliver of a truth, a human truth that they care about? And then the next, the next, next. And it's been all about building these hierarchies and these journeys and trying to figure out, okay, what's the most appropriate moment. At this level, which is like, okay, if it's a big brand campaign, yes, we're going to focus on the one big thing and do a cool big brand campaign. But then the next layer down has got to hit that next part. Maybe it's like two messages and we get to layer three and there's going to be a couple more messages and we get down all the way down to like a deep webpage. Then you can start, you know, being very technical or whatever. So it's like finding that story and that story arc versus like when you go to speed of sea, it's like, what do people care about hiking shoes? They care about X and that emotion. And then bye.

You know what I mean? It's like, just go buy it. And it's been super fast. So for me, it's like, it's just a longer buying chain. It's like, it takes a year for someone to decide to buy this and you've got all these different personas coming in. So it just gets into this deep matrix of all these parts and pieces. But for me, again, going back to that scientific stuff of it's just like, you just gotta organize that in just a good logical flow. And I feel like my superpower at B2B has been, can I tell a story that sounds human, that sounds simple and easy to understand? But just has a lot of different story arcs that are connected that help you get to the deep technical knowledge that you wanna share. So that's really it. It's just like, you gotta create that whole journey and that whole story and then all the right moments to share and what you're gonna be talking about at those different moments. So it's complicated, it's hard, but you can have just as much good branding and exciting moments as you would at a B2C.

Arjita: Yeah, no, it's really definitely really interesting and I love how you like broke it down into you know finding that one small piece of human emotion and then really blowing it up because in B2C, I mean, obviously, it's not easier, you know, there's a lot of competition as well. But it is like if you want to advertise for hiking shoes, you can find 50 different ideas where someone is in a hiking shoes and you can really appeal to that emotion of hiking and like the adrenaline that one gets from hiking, but when it's B2B, ultimately, you know, it's like, it's a software or it's a service that, you know, a company needs to buy. Any examples that you could share with us, say, of a certain feature that you translated into some sort of story or anything like that, if you would like to share with our audience.

Adam: All right, we're gonna have to pause here for a minute because I wasn't ready for this one. That has to be a specific B2B. Because I could talk about my current one right now, but it's not ready. Like I don't want that out yet. We're launching it in a couple of months. So let me think of an old example and then we can start recording again.

Arjita: So, so Adam, you know, you run a super podcast for creative leaders called the real creative leadership where you invite a diverse set of leaders from the creative space, you know,

Adam: Okay. I mean, I can tell you one, but it's like, it's a long drawn out whole story of different things.

Arjita: And where you talk about different topics from landing jobs to setting up teams, creative culture, and it's a wonderful podcast for the community. So I wanted to understand what has been the most encouraging part of running the show and how has it helped you to connect with the community, the creative community at large.

Adam: It has been so amazing. You should know you're running your own podcast, but we're getting into year five, season five of this podcast. And I'd say number one, it's easy, hands down. The thing that is the most awesome and inspiring for me is when I get a message from someone on LinkedIn that said something like, how have I not known about this podcast? How have I just barely found this? This has been so great. I've been going through a big transition point in my career, and this has been super helpful. That right there is what keeps me going. Because, I mean, let's be honest, like my podcast is not necessarily tied to a business. It's not, the purpose isn't to get leads or do anything else, it's just to share great info, which sometimes is hard, because you're like, why do I keep doing this? This is, there's a lot of extra time for, you know, for funsies. So when someone sends a message like that, that is what makes all the difference. Then it's like, okay, I'll keep going. I'll keep making some stuff. But I mean, the reason why I started into it in the first place is I feel like there's, there is, there are a lot of websites and books and content focused on the craft of creativity. All about getting you inspired and how to be a better designer or writer, whatever it may be. But there has just been so little about creative leadership in my journey, you know, getting close to, you know, 28 years. And so it's like, there was no user manual. It was just like trial by error. So that was my inspiration of like, how do I create a place where people can come learn about creative leadership and really understand it and get, you know, you know, people like in my role, like, how do you scale? How do you balance out the workload? How do you, um, understand organizing teams and a lot of this stuff that's boring and lame and not as sexy, but it's super important. Um, and it's important to me because like when we're talking about

You know, the future and trends and where things are going, like, I just see such a huge opportunity for creativity in this new world. We may think, oh, you know, AI and other things are cramped in our style, but it's like, then let's move on. Cause there's such an opportunity to go to companies and have a vision of where you can drive great customer experiences. Who better than creatives who empathize and put your, you know, wear our customers shoes and walk a mile for them and really understand what a good experience is. And if that's the thing that's going to change it, you look back from the nineties when it was all total quality management and, you know, we were always trying to follow, you know, the auto manufacturers of how they were being so efficient and great. That was great for like 10, 15 years. And now there's so many businesses that are trying to run it like that. Just like at just operational efficiency. And they forget the X factor, which is creativity that can boost all of it and make it all better.

And so as the more and more that companies see that and value that and put creative leadership on their board, driving that the better this world will be bring on all the other tools and AI and everything you want, but that's where we should focus. And the problem is so few of us as creatives focus on that. We want to stay in our creative cave and create beautiful things and ignore the business side of it. And I want to encourage a lot of us to be like, step out and don't worry about your portfolio and worry about the bigger.

world, business world portfolio, and how can we all together link arms and make a big impact on creativity by getting into great positions and making it so that there's an opportunity for creative people to do awesome stuff. So that's where I'm passionate about. That's why I did the podcast. I want all of us to do that. And I wanna make a big impact on the creative world in that.

Arjita: So I have two follow-up questions on that. I have myself led a team of content writers, designers, and oftentimes, individuals are reluctant to take that leap of going from an individual contributor kind of a role and being an expert in their craft to actually taking a larger role of setting up teams, setting up vision, setting up the creative direction for the company or for the product, right? Any, you know, part one of my question would be, would you advise everyone to do that? And secondly, you know, if someone wants to make a leap from the first to the second, you know, how do they go about doing that?

Adam: Hmm. First of all, no, I don't think everyone should because it's not for some people, it's just not right. And I don't want to force enough people into creative leadership roles, and it just wasn't a good fit. And so it's not right, like, do what's best for you in your career. Do what's best for you in your career at this moment, it may just be that right now someone's like, I just need to get better at the craft. And I need to be a senior creative, and I just need to make awesome stuff. Fantastic. It's not for everyone. I just am saying like Not all of us should stay in the creative cave and just not wanna do manage. Like some of us have to. And when you do, then you need to like just really own it. And two more things to follow up. As far as like making that leap, it is an incredibly hard chasm to cross, 100%. And I have talked with hundreds of creatives trying to make that leap and it's really, really hard. And you don't see it as you're looking to jump. You have a completely different perspective that is just focused on.

The craft in your work, and all that other stuff on the other side just seems stupid and worthless, right? But once you make it and you're in it and you understand how that creates the environment, how it's building it better for other people to follow you, you're building a bridge for others, right? Then you see the value of it, and then you're like, oh, let's go all in. In fact, I have several sessions. If you wanna just go to realcreativeleadership.com and look for how to become a creative director, there are multiple talks. I've got one in the future with Christo all about it. There's lots of content of making that leap because there's a lot to it. But finally, I would say like, as far as like making that leap, I think a lot of them are afraid that they're giving up their creative soul and that they're no longer gonna be creating stuff anymore and they're just gonna be doing management stuff and they're just gonna be miserable. And I would say, that's not true. Like I have made the leap successfully and you just have to change your mindset on what your creativity is doing. Like I know as creative people, we have that creative itch and you've gotta be doing something and creating something or you just feel unfulfilled and unhappy. And you still, I still have to do that. But for me, it's changed from the big campaign concept to the brand story, right? Or the ad that I'm doing to what's the narrative or where are we going, you know, and as far as a creative vision for the team. Like there are other ways that I'm still scratching that itch and still using creativity. Even through strategic-y things, right? Like strategy and creativity are the same, it's just the same thing, just flip side. You're looking at things with a new problem from a different angle or a new solution, whatever it may be. So I would say like change your perspective and just know that like there's things, there are things you're going to do that will still scratch that creative itch. And if it doesn't work on the novel still, work on the, you know, the screenplay, the new art you're creating, the watercolors, do your thing. Like I still have to do that thing, right? And I still had to do that when I was working as an individual contributor because it was, you know, you still have to create. But I just wanna say like, you just have to change your mindset a little bit and there's still a lot of things that you can impact. And then suddenly it opens up and you're like, I do wanna impact the business world because I can still be creative in the way that I'm doing X, Y, Z rather than just, you know, the output of the work.

Arjita: Yeah and you can always pick the things that you want to own. And like, even for me, while I have teams, there are certain pieces that I like doing myself as an individual contribution. And I have, there's a female who joined my team last year. She started as a content writer, but now she is leading a team of visual designer, few content writers. But whenever it comes to like a big new impactful piece that we are running as an experiment, she always prefers doing it by herself. So she has this entire control on you know, who she is assigning work to versus what she's taking up herself. So that even her you know, creative itch in terms of just writing stuff is there. So there are always ways to you know, balance that. And obviously it doesn't have to be that way that everyone has to go this route, but few people definitely need to and I think more and more people are becoming open about that direction as well because I guess I think companies are also starting to notice that fostering a creative culture is more and more important which was not the case I guess you know 20, 10, 20 years ago so it's becoming better and better as storytelling as brand building becomes more and more important for companies.

Adam: Excellent, agreed, agreed.

Arjita: Great. So I think that, you know, brings us to the end of the podcast. We just have a few rapid fire questions for you, Adam fun stuff. So the first one being what is your go-to song for a creativity boost?

Adam: Wordless music, always. I'll listen to soundtracks or wordless music, because when I'm thinking and come with ideas, the words sometimes make me think about the word and the story too much, whereas just the music without words just gets into my soul and then I feel like I can create new stuff. So yeah, wordless music.

Arjita: Interesting. And you know, what is your most unusual source of inspiration that you've ever had?

Adam: Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. Probably, let's just say cat videos. Yeah, just laughing at them and the choices they make just makes me, just puts me in a new space.

Arjita: Cat videos?

Arjita: And what does your perfect day off looks like?

Adam Morgan: No zoom meetings. Doesn't matter what I'm doing. Get out rock climbing, adventure, anything, just not zoom. Ha ha ha.

Arjita: Interesting. So Adam, what's next for you? Like, you know, you've had this stellar career and you're at a position of influence in the entire creative industry. So what is it that you're looking forward to in the next, you know, five, eight years in the industry?

Adam: Well, I'm for me personally, I'm going to keep doing real creative leadership. And I'm actually working on a, maybe a four book series that follows along with all of that content. So I'm working on that. So that's a lot of fun. I'm going to keep working at Splunk or, you know, moving my career along as far as like, uh, you know, probably working at a big tech company somewhere doing brand. Um, and then if I, when I really grow up and I want to do a job, I want to become a landlord. That's what I want to be when I grow up.

Arjita: Landlord? Like rent a house or? Yeah. Interesting. Okay, great. That was, this was a great chat, Adam. I personally got to learn a lot, enjoyed a lot speaking with you. I love your enthusiasm about this particular mission that you're on and the podcast that you're running. And I wish, you know, great things for you and everything that you're pursuing right now.

Adam: Yeah, yeah, that's what I want to do. Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure to be on your show. Thank you.

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